My Build - Luego Velocity

Viento, Velocity & Locost

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My Build - Luego Velocity

Postby Phil Bradley on Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:12 pm

Hi All
Usual first liner - \"Finally I have done it.\"
For me it is \"finally\", I have been doing Internet research on and off for about 4 years. Still wanting to buy another MX bike, my wife - bless her soul, put her foot down and said \"NO MORE BIKES\", so we compromised on the car...YEHAA!!!
What I know about the internals of a car is quite frightening, big thanks to Brad and Andre for the pointers to date.
I received my chassis on Saturday 1st July - my little girls third birthday, so I now have a good benchmark for build times.
The quality of the chassis is outstanding. My father-in-law was impressed for heavens sake and he’s a German design engineer. Well done Brad, it takes a lot to impress ze Germans.

Car specs (as of now, may change)
Chassis – Locost
Body – Luego Velocity
Colour – Italian Red with Carbon Fibre effect nose and front wings
Motor – Nissan SR20DET 2.0l Turbo charged - Now a Toyota 20V Blacktop
Gearbox – Nissan 200SX 5speed - Now a Toyota T-50
Diff – Ford Sierra 4.11 IRS (I did contemplate the Subaru at one stage – maybe a mod that I’ll do when I have the skill)
Internals – Haven’t decided yet. I’ll need help in this department.
Lights – Still trying to source good-looking ones, I may have to import.
Wheels – 15” Alloys. I haven’t seen any I like yet. I want them to be open so the brakes are clearly visible.

What I have done to date:
Cleaned the chassis a few times
Bought the nuts and bolts from JKM in Randburg – Hope they are the correct ones.

What I’m waiting for:
The Diff and suspension bits and bobs to have them blasted and powder coated.

This is going to be great fun. I look forward to meeting you all at the various track days and race meetings. Please feel free at any time to throw comments, suggestions and anything of interest at me.

Regards,
Phil
:P
Last edited by Phil Bradley on Thu May 17, 2007 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gerrie on Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:46 pm

Hi Phil, good luck with your build, you have made one of the best choices us chaps can make here in SA, I can also testify to that, the quality of components that LocostSA sells is of very high standard and at an inset price that no one else can closely match :) Hopefully we all can have our cars finish by this time next year when it is the 50th anniversary of the venerable Lotus7 and possibly have a large gathering of Sevens somewhere and meet each other!

Regards
Gerrie
Luego Viento
Rover V8
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Postby andredp on Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:08 am

Hi Phil

Glad to hear you are progressing nicely. Good luck and see you on the road soon :)
Andre'
Racing: Locost Racer - Rocam with plastic intake manifold ;)
Upgrading: Luego Locost SA - ex 4AGE 20V - soon to be x2 on KWs
New projects: More Locost Formula racers
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Postby Phil Bradley on Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:10 am

Hi
I have just ordered my second set of bolts after realising that you can get them coated. I have requested that they all be done, hope that was the correct thing to do. Below is the list of bolts from the online build manual. Couple of questions:
Are there materials missing from this list?
Which ones have thread on the end only? I odered the rear and front suspension without thread.
I took the list off http://www.luegosportscars.com/cars/velocity/
Rear suspension
18 M12 x 75
34 M12 washers
Front suspension
12 M12 x 80
52 M12 washers

Pedal box
6 M8 x 20
Master cylinders 2 5/16” UNF nuts
2 7/16” UNF half-nuts
4 Split pins
Accelerator Pedal 2 M6 x 15 (1 nut)
1 M6 rivet-nut
Clutch Pedal 1 M5 bolt
1 M5 rivet-nut
1 M6 x 20
Brake unions 2 M6 x 20 (no nuts)
2 M6 rivet-nuts
Steering rack 4 M8 x 25
Hubs 2 M12 x 65 (if fitting a nut, 50 if not)
Bottom swivels 4 M8 x 20
Steering column 2 M8 x 30
2 M8 original thick washers
Fuel tank 2 M8 x 25
2 M6 x 20
2 M6 rivet-nuts
Hand brake 2 M8 x 25
2 6mm clevis pins & split pins
2 8mm clevis pins & split pins
Handbrake cables 2 M8 Nyloc nuts
Gearbox mounting 2 M8 x 20
Differential 2 Original M12 long bolts
2 M12 nuts
Drive shafts 8 M10 original small head bolts
8 M10 nuts
32 M10 washers
Panels & body 200 4mm captive head pop rivets
Body 18 M6 bolts x 20
18 M6 rivet nuts
12 M5 bolts or screws x 16 long
14 M5 rivet nuts
6 M6 Socket head cap head screws x 20
Radiator 4 M8 x 20
Exhaust 4 5/16 UNF Nyloc nuts
2 M6 x 20
2 M6 rivet-nuts
8 M8 Stainless Steel nuts

Cheers
Phil
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Postby andredp on Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:31 am

Hi Phil

Yes, you will go back many times to buy more bolts, depending on your taste and what you do different to the other guys. The list on the Luego site is just a start. I went back to find fancy bolts with round heads for some places, sunken bolts for other places, black bolts for other places, small bolts, large bolts, etc :D

The list you have is a good start though, but you will have to trim the lengths for some of the bolts, especially the main wishbone ones. Don't worry too much about it, when in doubt, get HT bolts, I prefer plated(no rust, looks good) but it is more expensive.

Enjoy :)
Andre'
Racing: Locost Racer - Rocam with plastic intake manifold ;)
Upgrading: Luego Locost SA - ex 4AGE 20V - soon to be x2 on KWs
New projects: More Locost Formula racers
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Postby Phil Bradley on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:45 am

Hi Andre
Thanks for the info. I can't wait for the bits and pieces from the scrappy. I should be getting them today (I've been told that for almost two weeks now, so not holding my breath) so that I can clean them up over the weekend and get them powder coated next week. Is it a good idea to have new cv joints put on? Is there a way to test the CV's and diff without being under load? I'm definately going to get new boots.
Phil
Phil Bradley
 

Postby andredp on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:55 am

Hope you get those donor bits. Just make sure that they don't powder coat surfaces mating to wheels, calipers etc. I painted my donor parts, and had to remove some paint where I foolishly painted on surfaces mating to wheels etc.

Yes, with the power you have in mind, I would definitely use brand new CVs.

Don't know if you can really test the diff under load. I just cleaned mine out, added new oil and checked for excessive play. Check the oil that you drain, it will giive you a good idea of the state of the diff.
Andre'
Racing: Locost Racer - Rocam with plastic intake manifold ;)
Upgrading: Luego Locost SA - ex 4AGE 20V - soon to be x2 on KWs
New projects: More Locost Formula racers
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Postby Phil Bradley on Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:55 pm

Hi Gerrie
Thank you for the well wishes. I originally set aside 18 month to do the build but now that I have the chassis I WILL do it in 6 - 8. I want it on the road. Brad told me that there's a chap (Anton) up in Ermalo that's quite a way into his build with the same motor that I'm going for. Hopefully I'll get some ideas from Anton about engine, wiring, brake line and plumbing layout which will help.

Just called Dragons again....diff etc. still not there. If they don't get their act together I'll source from somewhere else.

Found CV joints online at www.cvjoints.co.za for R150 Excl. each, sounds reasonable when Ford Randburg wanted R2600 per side???? Guess where I'm getting them from?

Have a great weekend
Phil
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Postby Slaine on Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:45 am

Hi Phil,

Welcome to the joy of building a Locost - and lots of good luck in your build.

One thing I can warn you about right from the start - get ready for a lot of waiting. If there is one thing you need with suppliers in the vehicle (parts) industry, it's patience - lots of it. ...ask me! I've been waiting for more than 6 months to get my engine bits sorted (turbo, cooler, etc). The amount of times I've heard 'about a week' that actually took two or three weeks is scary!

Other than that, its 100% pure fun! Enjoy!
Pierre Roux
------------------------
Luego Locost 13B Rotary Turbo
http://seven.dfx.co.za/ my car,
http://www.openwater.co.za/ my other hobby...
http://www.ozone.co.za/ - and something to pay for it all...
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Postby Phil Bradley on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:24 pm

Hi Pierre
Thanks for that. I still battle for having faith in people...
I have been onto your site quite a lot for quite a while and yours is looking really good, I look forward to seeing the car in the flesh. That baby is going to scream.
Today was a perfect example of benig f'ed around. After being told that Dragon's HAVE a 4.11 for me...they don't. I phoned a scrappy out in Randfontein this morning \"I have loads for you\". I go out there, leaving a message for Brad telling him that I've struck gold, only to find out that they have bugger all. Don't I feel like a tosser now.

My mate's coming around soon, he's got an original seven that he's tweeked a little bit and he knows a few guys in the industry so fingers are crossed.

Does any one have an idea as to what the outcome will be of running a 3.7 diff as opposed to the 4.11 with the 2l turbo? As with most of you, I want the acceleration not high speed.

I suppose I shouldn't get upset yet but I WANT TO GET STARTED.

Have a better one
Phil
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Postby Slaine on Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:34 pm

Hi Phil,

Yeah, its comming along - think it may just be a little too much power (if there is such a thing)... but we'll see when its done... :)

What I do know; its gonna be fun!

Back to your query:
Go here: http://www.locost7.info/

Download the GearCalc software. You can play around and see what the diff change will do for you.

If you look here: http://seven.dfx.co.za/index.asp?Content=6
You'll see my calcs on the 4.11. I got my 4.11 from Hoedspruit (I'm in Centurion) Had it couriered here as those diffs are chicken's teeth.

The chaps sold me as a 3.89 that turned out to be a 3.09, so they replaced it with a 4.11. :D (Hope that was confusing enough)
Pierre Roux
------------------------
Luego Locost 13B Rotary Turbo
http://seven.dfx.co.za/ my car,
http://www.openwater.co.za/ my other hobby...
http://www.ozone.co.za/ - and something to pay for it all...
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Postby Phil Bradley on Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:08 am

Morning All

Thanks for the info Pierre.

That was quite a fustrating weekend, I couldn't buy anything to get going.

I had the gear calc but I think it was corrupted, so I've downloaded it again.
When I input the parameters I get the following:

4.11
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 8.94 80
2 15.61 141
3 22.70 204
4 29.70 267
5 35.44 319

3.9
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 9.42 85
2 16.45 148
3 23.93 215
4 31.30 282
5 37.34 336

3.7
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 9.93 89
2 17.34 156
3 25.22 227
4 32.99 297
5 39.36 354

3.3
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
----------------------------------------
1 11.14 100
2 19.45 175
3 28.28 254
4 36.99 333
5 44.13 397

I don't quite understand which one will be better to go for and why.
The lower ratio gives a higher top end through the gears but I presume that the higher ratios gives more power through the gears with a lesser top end, which is what we are all looking for???
Phil Bradley
 

Diff Ratios

Postby Gregt on Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Hi Phil,
One thing to remember is that a numerically lower ratio is actually a higher ratio! IE a 4.11:1 ratio is lower than a 3.89:1 ratio so your motor will be revving higher at a given speed. That said there are a lot of factors to consider to get to the \"right ratio\". One thing is that a 7 has dreadful aerodynamics so you need enormous amounts of power to exceed speeds of around 210 km/h. This is probably a bit accademic as a 7 is probably not so stable at over these speeds anyway and I would guess quite scary too! The point is that choosing a ratio that will give you a theoretical top speed of say 250 km/h is a bit pointless if you only have a 100kW motor. The other side of the story is that if you have lots of power and choose a super low ratio to get good acceleration you may have too much torque in 1st gear to handle so this is also a waste.
Probably a better bet if you have lots of power and torque as in a turbo motor is to consider the ratio that will give you a comfortable cruising speed. A 3.89:1 will probably be adequite, any lower (numerically higher) and you just won't be able to use full throttle in the lower gears.
Incidentally gear ratios have no bearing on power. A gearbox (and diff) are essentilly torque multipliers in that power = torque x revs so at a given engine speed the gearbox sacrifices speed for torque or vice versa.
Regards,
Greg
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Postby Phil Bradley on Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:53 am

Hi Greg
Thanks for the info, I get it now.

I picked up my 4.11 Diff yesterday, no thanks to Jeremy at Dragons and a big thank you to Sarel and Gideon Delport from Buks Delport Diff & Gearbox (011-493-7399), very friendly and helpful. The diff din't come with the bolts and Ford don't have them in their parts list??? Please will one of you let me know what size I need to get? Thanks.
All I need now is the drive shafts, uprights and bearings for front and back and then I can get the suspension fitted.
Phil Bradley
 

Postby andredp on Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:23 am

Hi Phil

Believe it or not, but the bolts on all the Sierra diffs is not the same. Typical Ford. Clean the diff up and take it to the bolt place and get them to supply you with the correct bolts. Remember to get bolts for the diff mountings as well as the driveshaft.

How about some pics Phil? Have you fitted all your pipes, pedalbox and ali panneling yet?
Andre'
Racing: Locost Racer - Rocam with plastic intake manifold ;)
Upgrading: Luego Locost SA - ex 4AGE 20V - soon to be x2 on KWs
New projects: More Locost Formula racers
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